“Progress”, huh? Would you consider yourself a progressive then? Is this the comment you and your fellow trolls came up with at the Tel Aviv troll farm?
Because everybody knows you can’t argue with an old man without looking like a jerk, lol.
Well played spook.
Give this man space! He’s 81 years old! Just here to brush up on the 'ol gmo’s issue, and still after all these charade of posts, can’t make up his mind, can’t decipher where he stands!
I am not trying to feel good by exchanging text with you – nor am I trying to deny you hope for change because of your age.
What I AM doing, is reminding you that, when you tell the American Public that its OK to break a few eggs in order to make an omlet, and the eggs belong to your neighbors but the omlet is something you are pushing to get, then you’re are out of line with American values by openly insisting that others simply deal with it because it is progress. GMO modification does not happen in a vaccum. I work hard every year to keep my heirloom seeds from getting contaminated by others who hold your views.
If you are truly 81, and an American, then you should respect my objections to your statements instead of calling it “a useless waste of time and energy”, If you want to make progress on things like you say, then start creating policy suggestions instead of trying to get people to embrace GMO engineering even though many want nothing to do with it. Convincing others NOT to change, or to embrace"what already is" is not the way to make progress, so your statement makes no sense. The objection to unrestrained open-pollination of GMO plants (and GMO winding up in my stomach) [which you call “progress”] is very simple..I shall highlight it below…
It is hard to believe that you are 81 and still have a problem grasping the concept of “Do No Harm” (at the expense of others). Nevertheless, have a nice day.
Yes, dear lady, I really am 81. And, yes, I would really like to see some “progress” on many issues while still sharing our universe with you and others. I’m not sure why I care since after my last email I shall no longer be involved but I have, with few exceptions, always wanted to see everyone else happy, even those that will never be so.
One thing I have learned is that some people will never be happy because what they seek with much desire they will never attain. It is simply not pissible in this complicated thing we call “life”. I wish them well in their endeavors but I know, in the end, they will never be satisfied. Perhaps a little bit because they will have small victories from time to time but they will never overcome man’s inhumanity to man.
What I read in your posts saddens me immensely. They have poked a hole in my balloon of hope that DOGE is going to make any significant changes in the end.
To paraphase “You can make some of the people happy all of the time, and some of the people none of the time, but you cannot make all of the people happy all of the time”.
And I figured out that it was a singular waste of my life to be really angry at anybody. Generally, it makes me tired and they don’t care how I feel anyway.
I hope you find happiness someday.
I followed the Johnson v. Monsanto trial in San Fransisco in 2019.
The lawfirm representing Johnson plaintif posted the evidence being presented in the trial, aka “the Monsanto papers” found at the link below.
It exposes the interior documents, emails of Monsanto administration and personal that they KNEW their products kill people and cause cancer. Yet spend billions to publish the opposite in the media.
I strongly encourage anyone with any interest in what psychopathic crimes Monsanto is guilty of, follow the yt video series put out by the attorney representing the plaintif R. BRENT WISNER.
I don’t have a working knowledge of the law, or how to write policy that doesn’t counteract or undo other “good” law.
Other than Monsanto running and hiding under the dress of Bayer for survival, I don’t know why they haven’t gone bankrupt, been forced to pay to victims, or why existing laws aren’t robust enough to enforce.
Policy seems easy to create in comparison to law changes, and I think laws changes and bans on products, and chems is more immediately necessary in the short term. I think the laws pertaining to what is and is not allowed to be patented has bearing on this issue… you can ban roundup, ban glyphosate, but they can tweak the recipe and quantity of any number of ingredients, or even use more toxic ingredients, and call it something else, make new research claims of safety, and market something entirely worse, and it takes us another 10 - 20 years to catch up to and outlaw
Build a new Organic Seed Library? Years yes; but get rid of Monsanto / Bayer; all GMO’s.
You know what…that really ain’t a bad idea, DarlaJean! It could pull the rug right out from under their feet. If we can create a Library of Congress or a Smithsonian Institute, then we can certaily build a ‘Library of Seeds’. And perhaps over time, we can also map the seed genomes and store them in a digital library of sorts, free for public access. This would really screw up the GMO industry, knowing that we have successfully recorded and created an “official standard” for a particular non-GMO plant variety – and they couldn’t submit patent requests for every little insignificant molecular arrangement twist or destructive variation to the originally mapped and recorded plant variety. This Library could officially serve as a storehouse for such legal and scientific standards, and we could start “locking down” GMO variation attempts against these genomic varieties. The GMO industry would whither on the vine like a genetically-modified infertile sweet pea. 
I remember, in college, donating part of my personal computer processing time to help with the mapping of the entire human genome. I downloaded and installed software on my computer such that my system would be remotely accessed at times of non-use, and the processing of data would be performed on my local machine, finally uploading the processed information back to the source I remember the sound of my hard drive spinning up, frantically reading/and writing in the middle of the night, while laying in my dormitory cot It made me feel happy, knowing that I was contributing even in a small way, to that scientifically-historic undertaking. The entire human genome was finally mapped out by tens of thousands of computers set up to remotely process a slice of the human puzzle (just like my computer), and I saved a newspaper article mentioning final completion of “The Human Genome Project.” It feels nice to be able to have left a tiny footprint in the sand while momentarily walking on the shores of Life, doesn’t it?
I bet Americans would again step up to the plate again for this wonderful effort. I would donate more of my computer cycles to assist in the mapping of the “Black Krim Tomato Variety” and the “Mississippi Purple Hull Pea” for starters! The new Seed Library non-GMO mapping project could create a website and allow anyone to go in there, select what they want to help map out, and download the software for remote processing of their favorite plant varieties. Who says Americans can’t rise to the occassion of a nobel and just cause? I love the idea and hope it happens!!! 
UPDATE: The suggested policy proposal in the above-mentioned post has been created. Link below:
They also sue neighboring farms if their product blows over onto the neighboring farm. They have so much money that they take small farmers to court and outspend them. They don’t win on merit. They win by tactic of outspending causing more harm. 100 percent agree - get them out.
Sounds sensible! Why not perform an overhaul of the Department of Agriculture and include farmers from all locations in leadership roles to lead subcommittees that assure individual farming states perform to newly set standards based on reforms proposed by RFK’s HHS.
The point is to take all the crap out of the foods, that we can’t pronounce and don’t know what it is.
Ya know Susan, I always felt that any Natural seed was not permitted to become Re-Patented at all? I felt that law of changing any percentage of a THING, even if 20% +, was meant for anything other than NATURE? I guess I was wrong. From experiments of home growers and very little of my own, it seems impossible to find Natural seeds anymore. There are company’s from years back that may still have buckets of Original Organics left>
Furthermore; the GMO patents also have their own ORGANIC GMO PATENTS. It’s truly disgusting.
But I do know there are a couple of Organic SEED Library’s that are Private. That in itself has to be very difficult to keep them very long as their shelf lives must be all different? IDK…
One person to ask who is the PATENT MASTER of the World, in my opinion, is Dr.David Martin. ( https://youtu.be/5iFMP99ql4Q?si=5jcvqnAwavGkmHJo
He would know the laws, the history of: Patents and how to find their sources.
I know from the fashion industry, that the cotton seeds were OWNED by the cotton organizations. In order to acquire seeds, grow or even find out about cotton fibers and fabrics SOURCES; a designer or individual needed to be a member of the organization.
I do believe though if you want to build a database; Dr.Martin can give you an excellent start. You might be surprised if you can get a hold of him? He is global…
I’ve tried to keep seeds myself; and without knowing much at all; had little luck at keeping them. So finding people who actually HAVE a TRUE ORGANIC SEED LIBRARY would be best. And there is a person on YouTube that has one.
I’m glad someone is interested; so many home growers are spinning their wheels and We need to get them back.
SEEDS are of a “Precious Value.”
Was hoping to see someone like Joel Salatin, Allan Savory or Will Harris get the position. Hopefully they will at least play a part. Cannot really include every farmer because some are very dependent on the system that was dictated to them by government and some are very dependent on selling to China.
I don’t know how many know this! Monsanto DOES NOT WANT THIS TO GET OUT!!!
First, PROOF!!!
Trademark of glyphosate-based herbicide made by Monsanto
Go to the bottom of the page at: Weed Control | Roundup It says it is from the Bayer Group. Google says monsanto
GUESS what is so special about that monsanto seed, other than the fact that the female parts of the plant are sterile! BTW the MALE parts of the plant are NOT sterile, so if a nearby farm gets fertilized by the male part of a monsanto plant, the NEW seeds can sprout and create a hybrid that is ALSO sterile, but monsanto will sue them for patent infringement! For those that don’t know, the stamen of the plant is the male part, and it produces pollen. That is spread by the wind, insects, small animals, etc… Corn is a weird plant. MOST plants have flowers, that have the male part in the center… With corn, the cobs have the female parts that become the corn cobs, and the male part is right at the very top of the plant.
As for the reason for GMO?
“PROS”
CONS!
It is worth noting that roundup is a VERY powerful weed killer! I had a weed that sent out tubers. It was HUGE, HARDY, and IMPOSSIBLE to destroy or really remove. I put ONE drop on ONE leaf of the plant, and the WHOLE THING DIED! Within a week it was ALL shriveled up!
NORMAL corn is nowhere NEAR as hardy as that weed was. Roundup would KILL normal corn.
If you eat GMO corn, you are likely ingesting glyphosate(roundup) AS WELL! Likely not much, and you won’t taste it etc… but it all adds up!
BS comments like this is why DOGE will fail. No serious consideration. About as useful as X or Facebook. Normal anti-social media.
We see you. What tribe do you belong to Huth? You’re either a troll, or ignorant. But I’ve never seen anyone who’s ignorant about gmo’s be as passionately emphatically ignorant as you are. Of ALL the issues to be unintelligent, uninformed about, you pick gmo’s? You insist on opening your confused mouth and polluting the commons with your daft DEFENSES no less… lol.
It’s not like gmo’s just came on the market yesterday. Criticism OF them, and evidence of their harms isn’t hard to find either. Yet you remain steadfast in your ignorance, and resolute in your defense and spread of misinformation. Have you really been asleep under a rock for the past 60 years? Really tiny hat?
Why don’t you go watch some documentaries and read some books before opening your mouth about something you know nothing about and polluting this space with your ignorant takes. It’s no one’s responsibility here to bring you up to speed. OR, DO you already know about gmo’s and you’re here to protect your investment, and market by sowing confusion and discord?
As far as I’m concerned you should take this opportunity to show some good faith, otherwise you can fuck all the way off.
You’re right. But I don’t know how to frame a policy to include that which is not present in any existing policy or law.
I don’t know what is safe to assume in regards to how up to speed the public is on monsantos crimes in getting gmo/glyphosate roundup approval and protections.
IMO bribery isn’t the heart of the issue nor should be the focus, as unethical and illegal as it is, and safe to assume is a major part of how they do business. It’s just one of many symptoms of rot in government.
Again I encourage everyone to read the transcripts of the Johnson vs. Monsanto trial, or watch the videos the plaintifs attorney put out where he goes over all of monsantos internal communications, exposing blatant cover ups, that were entered as exibits/evidence. The fact that a jury awarded MALICE is discussed, in regards to how rarely that is awared…
It’s my opinion that the courts are impotent. And that changes to the law is necessary. Which will veer into overhauling patent law, lobbying congress, and the revolving door at fda etc. Monsanto has brazenly sidestepped and subverted every check and balance in place, and we have yet to correct, plug loopholes, charge and prosecute. SURELY we’re not going to abandon the majority of U.S. agriculture, and cower in our smug and cozy coastal enclaves with our vegan kale and wheatgrass and call it a day, and chalk it up to letting the market competition decide. When that’s not how anything else gets decided.
I would compare the gmo/glyphosate issue to the mrna issue, in that both were emphatically marketed to the public as “safe and effective”. Both were marketed as healthy and necessary. But those in the know, know that neither is safe or healthy. Both products were pushed onto the market without adequate or ANY safety testing. The general public suffers under the dilution that the FDA is a neutral and qualified government agency institution that has capacity and labs to do what is essential independant safety testing on products needing approval to go to market. THE FDA HAS NO SUCH CAPACITY. It is literally a rubber stamp office. Let that sink in.
When it comes to monsantos approval application for roundup, gmo’s etc. The fda says, how do we test gmo’s for safety and also in regards to roundup? Monsanto says we can’t disclose that, it’s proprietary information. Fda says, OK, we don’t have labs to test or come up with any testing criteria whatsoever so YOU GUYS do your own safety tests and then give us a copy of the results. Monsanto says, sure thing, and does just that. What kind of results do you think Monsanto turned in for review? Transparent honest results that would prevent them getting approval? Not to mention fda has no means or criteria to verify ANY results anyway, so what do they do? Issue the approvals. It’s literally what happened. This goes hand in hand with monsantos practice of getting their own people staffed at FDA/USDA in order to ensure approvals were issued for each new technology and chemical, and once said approvals we’re granted, those ex Monsanto employees hired as fda staff, WENT BACK TO WORK AT MONSANTO. What is also known as “the revolving door”. This has been highlighted in multiple documentaries over the years. Why this isn’t illegal, and prosecutable is beyond me. This is not checks and balances. This is the absence of consumer protections. And yet the public sense is that these offices serve a purpose, and that the publics interests are being served, when the exact opposite is true.
And this gets to the heart of the matter, as far as I know, Technically speaking we can’t get rigorous safety testing, because there’s no independant 3rd party anonymous research group or facility in all of America to conduct/publish any semblance of sufficient testing. No criteria has even been established because monsanto has not been forced to divulge their proprietary patents. So THAT is problematic because it’s legal to disperse poison throughout the united states on a mass scale as long as you hold a patent on the poison, and because you aren’t made to disclose the proprietary nature of the patent, no criteria for safety tests can even be created. So it’s a nice racket for Monsanto. And they are in fact operating entirely above the law. And just like so many problems in government where we think there’s people in place, or institutions, or legal authorities or precedents that will kick in to fix problems if they arise. We find that the buck stops nowhere. Monsanto greases every wheel they need to, to facilitate the outcomes necessary to establish total monopoly dominance. And every government body, including the courts displays ongoing impotence. I think the problem begins and ends with the law, and what I see is a lack of competence, creativity, and political will to address it. Specifically the patents.
ALL of the agriculture science departments at colleges, all research centers that CAN possibly come up with a thorough criteria TO test, are ALL funded by Monsanto. What student, what professor is going to risk losing the majority of sponsorship funds for their entire budget? What professor would allow that kind of extensive student research to go on under their noses, this assuming Monsanto doesn’t already have close watches on all the facilities and programs they sponsor? What kind of research results are EVER going to come out of such an arrangement!?
In the case of “vaccines,” people died almost immediately after exposure, and developed severe reactions to the point excess deaths and vax injuries could be measured relatively quickly from year to year. And yet it was allowed to be rolled out, and then the race was on to catch up to “the science”. In other words the average citizen has to get up to speed and invest the time and energy to educate themselves on virology, mrna, to become educated enough to effectively assess safety for themselves. And the threat of not doing so is obvious and could be catastrophic.
In the matter of gmo, not so much. BECAUSE no sufficient safety testing has been done, it’s not been an urgent insistence to gather evidence and correlation of cancer, chronic disease, asthma, diabetes, etc to gmo/roundup. Because the longer time horizon between exposure and development of symptoms allow Monsanto to hide behind plausible deniability. And although that seems to be over, and the jig is up, how much have they been forced to pay in restitution to victims? Even after multi million dollar verdicts?
Now that Monsantos internal memos and cover ups have been exposed. Now that they are stacking up lawsuit losses. Why are they not being forced to pay restitution to victims? I don’t understand how they get by with that. Will their losses continue to increase? Undoubtedly. So where does it go from here, class action lawsuits? I don’t know. But they seem to continue to get away with murder, literally. And their products are still available for sale.
If you are a consumer, you should care. You’ve already been exposed. If you eat food, you should care, you’ve already ingested their products.
We have no representation in government that hasn’t already been bought off by Monsanto. Every rep in agriculture states wether dem or republican has been bought off, and repeats Monsanto propaganda talking points, which has been this way since the 80’s. And I can’t determine if the tide is turning or not, for decades the rhetoric has been that these products are safe and this has been useful in forming a common consensus that this is now just normal agriculture. And Monsanto has spent BILLIONS in the media to secure this manufactured consent and consensus, and keep the public STUPID. And to suppress and threaten any dissent or contradictory policy that’s obviously arisen in other countries from gaining traction in the U.S…
As a conservative I hold my party most responsible for the tyrannical corruption with regard to Monsanto gmo chemical agriculture even though there’s plenty of liberal reps guilty of the same corruption. It’s red states that are primarily agriculture states but without any governers or significant reps to protect the peoples interest. They should know better, and they do, and they choose the path of least resistance.
Seems like policy isn’t enough without law changes. The patent laws would have to be addressed and changed. The chemicals and gmo’s would have to be outlawed, with stiff fines, and jail time for offenders. The public needs to be educated.
And I don’t know why this continues to be an issue, or be viewed as too radical or difficult, or why any reform blocking regard would be given to farmers that use gmo’s when we have no such regard for
Smokers/tobacco farmers when cigarette smoking was outlawed in public spaces
When incandescents were outlawed and only LEDS are allowed for sale. (Which should be reversed by the way)
When every vehicle manufactured has to have seat belts, and antilock brake systems
For some reason no tears were shed, and we go along with these changes, when perhaps there’s more of an argument not to along with these freedom reducing policies than there is with outlawing gmo’s.
I like Joel Salatin, and am a fan of the way he farms. I’m not a fan of how he’s stated in his books, and elsewhere that “he’s not in competition with gmo’s”. That’s convenient for him to say because he doesn’t grow any grains. BUT, he does have to buy grains, he does have to purchase and supplement grains from farmers who MUST be in competition with gmo’s. So what he’s really saying is I DON’T HAVE TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THIS ISSUE, AND NEITHER DO YOU IF YOU FARM EXACTLY THE WAY I DO, AND THEN YOU TOO CAN EXTERNALIZE RESPONSIBILITY FOR GROWING NON GMO GRAINS TO THE HANDFUL OF REGIONAL GROWERS THAT HAVE TO BEAR THE FULL WEIGHT OF RESPONSIBILITY ALONE WITHOUT ANY SOLIDARITY FROM US NICHE MARKET PRODUCERS.
If you live in Virginia on the other side of the mountains, and don’t have to deal with pollen drift, weed pressures, and have temperatures that allow pasture grazing year round, without any hay or grain supplementation, hey that’s great. You aren’t going to get that in South Dakota. Are we not supposed to raise cattle or chickens in South Dakota? Clearly that’s not the answer. What grows well in South Dakota? Grains, hay. And if it’s going to be non gmo, or organic, what you would hope is being fed to those pasture raised animals in the bitter freezing cold winter months, who still need to eat. Chickens aren’t probably aren’t going to survive in chicken tractors. Should chickens not be raised in south dakota? Is joel going to deliver or ship virginia chicken to douth Dakota? No? Would that be pretty environmentally unfriendly? Can we agree that this myopic approach leads to a lack of solidarity and investment in issues we all should be concerned with? Can we get some advocacy and solidarity from Joel and the other food gurus who seem to thus far have no problem with disregarding whole states and regions that must contend with nature and issues, and responsibilities such as SOMEONE has to be responsible for growing, wheat, corn, beans, hay, etc.
And while each and every organic farmer is taking up the sword competing against their gmo neighbors AND against the goliath of monsanto, Joel is in no such fight, and explicitly instructs not to be. And like Pilot, washes his hands of the matter. But yet is reliant on those that must stick around to pick up the slack, but without any representation or advocacy from him, or those in position to do so. Gee, thanks Joel. From where I stand it looks an awful lot like an indifferent middle finger.
So, if RFK probably understands this issue more than “fill in the blank” guru, the entire infrastructure of the food movement is reliant on organic farmers that grow commodity crops, no matter what their size or wether they participate in the usda organic program or not, but to have clean food, those commodities must at least be grown organically. That’s what organic means, gmo pesticide and herbicide free. The entire food movement is reliant on these growers for consistency of their own products integrity, but these specific growers must subsist without any advocacy or representation. While getting shit on by controlled opposition and those in the food movement that could make a difference, but don’t.
What kind of substantial corrections can be hoped for with the incoming administration? I’m skeptical if what needs to happen is going to. People that have positions and platforms to speak about meaningful reforms, aren’t. We outlawed smoking in public spaces. How dissimilar is it to do the same with gmo? I just don’t see enough people that give a shit.
Since the fda has zero capacity for testing and is wholly inept to approve or disapprove of any new chemical or tech. There needs to be law change. To protect heirlooms, hybrids, and natural non gmo seeds of all varieties.
It’s not good enough to outlaw this or that for a political cycle… But to have a national policy that preserves and protects our once diverse natural seed varieties like the endangered species that they are!, that maintains and proliferates those banks, and breeding methods. A total overhaul of agriculture in America, and policy…are we there yet? Where the majority of Americans fully grasp the reality of our current system where we have irretrievably lost hundreds and hundreds of narural heirloom seed varieties, and those that remain are under threat of extinction through gmo contamination?
Are we there yet?
I’ve heard evolution described as a loss of genetic information. Is that a good thing then? To go from hundreds of corn varieties down to a few? And then to force evolve unnaturally curse the world with only gmo varieties? Is that progress?Does the public understand what is at stake? Do the people in this chat understand that endangered species applies to our food?? If people understood, on this issue, and many others, there would be no deniability of the truth, No resistance or self censorship in waging total war. There’s a bone for the environmentalists, the seeds are an endangered species.
If incandescents can be outlawed with no consideration given to health, then why can’t gmo’s be outlawed with no consideration for health, and outlawed on the basis of it creates endangered speed species out of all natural seed stocks?
If no one can win battles on the basis of health or ethics anymore, and “THE ENVIRONMENT” is the only catalyst for movement anymore, then go with endangered species angle. And FINE Monsanto so heavily for every species they have wiped out, that it’s no longer worthwhile to pursue gmo’s.
I keep emphasizing that this is a HEALTH issue. And I keep making the mistake of assuming that THAT is a universally comprehensible view, and the only reason that’s not comprehensible is because to understand it as a health issue, it must be first understood and properly framed as a moral and ethical issue. And as long as it remains a political preference, or market freedom issue, then health can’t really be addressed, and certainly not morals or ethics. Are we there yet? I’m not getting that we are. Until we find our common interest in restoration of public trust and conscience and prioritize health, morals & ethics above profit or markets, things will remain the same.
We have a mandate. And no one can bungle, squander, and fuck up a mandate worse than rinos and republicans… as we are witnessing from the shitbag swamp creatures in congress right now. but I’m ready to be surprised. Ready for some shock & awe. Can we expect conscience from these holdouts?
Unfortunately, they’re the ones that defined the natural process as a GMO. I think
it should be separated.
Sorry, Don, but you have used too many pronouns and the meaning is unclear. Who is “they”?
And no, the natural process of reproduction is not patentable, and not a genetically modified organism.
GMO’s are horrible on many many levels. Not only the environmental degradation, and the perpetuation of monocropping, but also the insanely awful impact on health both for humans and animals. They’re not an innovation; they’re part of a population reduction strategy. They are designed to kill you slowly and allow the powers that be to keep your pension because you’re dead already. Stop defending them or we have to agree FT is right and you are a Monsanto plant!
Watch FOOD INC.
Watch GMO OMG
Watch GENETIC ROULETTE
Watch THE WORLD ACCORDING TO MONSANTO
Watch INGREDIENTS
Watch THE FUTURE OF FOOD
Watch KING CORN
READ THE MONSANTO PAPERS!
And LEARN something.
None of the above but I did learn manners.